Why this blog?
The reason behind this is the desire to spare others from a disappointing experience at the Foundry. There's certainly more than meets the eye and some things must be told. Of course, the reader must take note of the author's subjectivity and is encouraged to compare the following information with some from other sources.
The official story
Quoting from their website:
"SigEx Ventures, Inc. is a private investment fund focused exclusively on the emerging Enhanced Communications industry. Using funds raised from individual (angel) investors, SigEx Ventures funds projects for the Foundry’s development programs. Thus, SigEx Ventures, in conjunction with the Foundry, enables fully-funded, viable structures for business R&D to address alpha-beta development projects for strategic customers that include global telecommunications carriers, network equipment manufacturers, information technology companies, and digital content providers. The projects developed by the Foundry are all pre-funded by the SigEx Ventures investments fund for a period of 12 to 18 months. The most successful of these may become sustainable ventures."
SigEx is led by Cristopher Cantell and Frederic Artru.
Now the facts:
In the summer of 2006 I got a mail from Frédéric Artru, with a proposition for a 2 month internship at the Foundry, in Pau, France:
Paris, August 1, 2006Subject: Offer letter – Freelance ContractI am pleased to announce that you have been selected for a freelance project at The Foundry in Pau, France for a period of 8 weeks for: Linux Network Application Development. Your assignment will be to take rapid responsibility, perform and excel in your area of expertise contributing to SigEx Ventures Telecom's global advanced telecommunications network. The details of your assignments willl be provided on site. Conditional on your successful performance and continuous delivery, you may be selected to be hired for a permanent position or offered a contract to travel to one of the European locations to support staff and teams around various projects. Your freelance package includes full living acommodations in Pau, a travel allowance of 300 Euros (paid on receipt, half at the end of the first week, other half upon completion), and a 150 Euros per week paid one week after completion based on your timesheets. This offer is official as of the date we receive your acceptance and will be processed based on the date of your arrival on a first-come first-serve basis.
It's worth mentioning that I have my own business, but given that the summer is a pretty dead season for IT (at least in Eastern Europe) and that I had plenty of financial resources to support myself for 2 months, I decided to take it, hoping that I would meet some interesting people from the IT scene. At best, I could establish new business contacts and possibly make some deals. At worst, I was going to see a new country (I hadn't been to France before).
Once I got there, after travelling for 24 hours, I was welcomed by Frédéric Artru at the Pau train station. He led me to the apartment they had rented for me. On the way to it, he gave me a brief of the Foundry. The basics were these: "lots of people come, but the vast majority bail out before the first month of the internship ends". I was about to see why. We finally reached the apartment. It was very small, but quite cosy. As I had arrived there early in the morning, I had the day off to rest. The next day I went to the office. It was at the top floor of a steel and glass building located in a fancy area of the town. As Frédéric Artru told me on the way there, it was part of the investment the town city hall had made in the SigEx business. Yes, they were given money to start the show. 30 million Euro, if I recall correctly. The investment covered the office space and a network infrastructure interconnected with Pau's own infrastructure (which is very nice, actually). The office seemed to have looked nice in the distant past. The air conditioning didn't work. There was no kitchen. Instead, they had a small storage room filled up with water cases. In a corner there was a small coffee filter. Luckily, the restroom was OK. Meeting the people was somewhat surprising. 90% of them were Romanians in their early 20s, with no significant previous work experience. A few of them had just graduated tech faculties, but their skills were obviously far from industry standards, even for interns, while others had diplomas in social fields so the best they could do was browse and use instant messengers. I would say there were around 20 people altogether.
Next, I had the honor of meeting the headmaster, the brain behind the whole business, Christopher Cantell. I would describe him as the typical American manager, with an ego big enough to fulfill China's requirements for 50 years. For two hours he told me about what great things he had done, without mentioning a single business name from his past. I can vouch that the words he loves most are "return of investment", "ballpark figures" and "stock". He would be a winner in any buzzword bingo contest. After these two hours passed, the first interesting piece of conversation took place: - Cantell: "Have you read my CV?"
- Me: "Yes, but this elloquent presentation you've made certainly outperforms any written piece. How about you? Did you read mine?"
- Cantell: "Err, no" Me: "Then how do you know I'm fit for the internship? What if I totally lack skills?"
- Cantell: "You'll get all the skills you need here."
This got me thinking. Anything would go, by this guy. Great. What's next? Oh yes, he didn't forget to tell me who his associate, Frédéric Artru, was: - Cantell: "Fred here is my employee, I bred him. He was an engineer at Apple."
- Me: "Why isn't he one anymore?"
- Cantell: "Because he could do better, he now works for me."
Ok, the egos were even bigger than my initial estimations. Next thing
Chris Cantell handed me a notebook. I was supposed to use it for writing down all the things he would tell me to do, put them in a thick square and write in boldface
"Action Required" above the square. I was a bit confused. Having had used gadgets like KNotes and all sorts of reminders, I'd forget very few things. But then again, we all have our own methods. This guy sounded like he knew what he was doing.
My first task was to deploy a callback mechanism using Asterisk. I was verbally handed the task by Frédéric Artru, after which his phone rang and he promptly disappeared. I was alone in my office, staring at my Apple computer, on which I didn't even have an account. Needless to say, I hadn't been given access to any kind of resources whatsoever. I was lost. So I went on a small stroll around the office to see who I could ask for an account on some development/testing machine. It turned out that all managers had gone to lunch leaving everybody behind. So I waited. For 3 hours. When the 3 hours passed, they finally returned from lunch. I was quickly asked for a status report. I hadn't anything to say but ask for resources. This is the first time I saw how the (in)famous notebook was used. I had to write down on the first page what I needed, put the square around it and write "Action Required" above it. Since Chris Cantell wasn't satisfied with the thickness of my square, he decided to show me how it's done. Enlightenment. The good thing is that I got access to a machine. The bad thing was that it was behind NAT and outside calls couldn't reach it without port forwarding. Of course, I had nobody to ask for setting it up for the next couple of hours, at the end of which Frédéric Artru came and did it, after logging in to the web interface of a SOHO router that seemed to serve the entire office. Pretty strange, I would say, given the huge amount of technical resources they pretended to have. Well, life goes on...The next day I came back to the office to finish setting up Asterisk. It was one of the least productive working days I've ever had, due to the standups held by Chris Cantell with sheer grace. For my readers that don't know what a standup is, it is when the manager comes to you and asks for a status report. "But it ain't so bad", one may say. Sure, it certainly isn't. As long as it doesn't happen every 15 (yes, fifteen) minutes. You do the math: 15 minutes of work, 10 minutes of standup. Not very efficient...After fixing the NAT problem, I went ahead and wrote a Perl plugin for Asterisk to do callback. I was supposed to connect two Vonage accounts by callback using my Asterisk server as a relay. As one could already guess, I wasn't given a Vonage account. So I had to wait some more. Of course, afterwards, another standup took place, this time with Frédéric Artru.I forgot to mention that during the previous day I had been told that at the Foundry they wanted the interns to think before anything. They wanted to stimulate creativity. They could even afford leaving unfinished tasks as long as the intern brainstormed (yes, I find it strange too). So back to standup, it came with a novelty: I was yelled at. Why? Because: - Artru: "here at the Foundry we don't brainstorm, we do things. I don't care how you do it,you just have to do it."
- Me: "Hm. That's not what I had been told a day before. Good engineering needs good planning and that no successful project existed without a decent roadmap"
- Artru: "I think your attitude isnt' the proper one. You're not here to tell us what to do.
- We tell you what to do. Got that?"
I didn't insist. The guy was obviously on a management authority demonstration spree. The most interesting part of the day was about to happen after this standup.
Chris Cantell came by, he brought us all in the "big room", an oval shaped room with several desks, to do a "build". Before I go on with speaking about what a "build" is, I should spend a few moments to describe what the project that the whole business went around was:
Are you ready? Ok, here goes.
SigEx's revolutionary product is a crappy peer-to-peer platform written entirely on Flash, which is ugly as your mother-in-law and slow as her donkey. For a taste of it you can access
http://www.sigex.com (it now is
http://www.thefoundryschool.tv). If you're wondering what the purpose of this platform is, it is, according to
Chris Cantell's words, meant to revolutionise the Internet and make it more interactive. People are supposed to access it and exchange all sorts of media with eachother. Word of advise: don't try it, it will most likely bring your PC on its knees. That's how "fast" it is.
Going back to the build: the build is the process through which each intern (yes, including me, the supposed engineer) visits video.google.com, youtube.com or some similar sites and looks for videos on a particular theme. Then, he/she copies the links to these videos and submits them to the
SigEx platform. The system downloads and archives them. Perhaps you're wondering what the purpose is. I asked
Chris Cantell the same thing and he didn't give me a straight answer I was eager to know who were the visitors exchanging that "marvelous" information and when. According to the statistics I saw, me and the other interns were the only users of the miraculous platform at any given time.
One of the most difficult things about staying there was eating. The French are extremely cautious when it comes to doing any kind of work, so the shops, cafeterias and even the banks are only open from 10 to 12 and then again from 14 to 17. Being in the office most of the time, I didn't even have time to go to the local supermarket to fill my fridge. I usually went to the gas station, the only place open at evening or night, and I got water and cold sandwiches. This turn of habits led to one of the cutest conversations I had with Frédéric Artru. We had gone out of the office at the end of the day and I started it: - Me: "You know, we have a problem. These "flexible" working days really make me starve, because there's simply not any way for me to get to the shop and buy food. We have to either leave the office earlier or use catering services while we're there."
- Artru: "Well, you see, this internship isn't just about technical matters, it's also about that you wouldn't get bored."
- Me: "Well, yes, the view is great but I got kind of bored of being hungry."
- Artru: "Sec, I gotta call my wife ..."
The next day was going to be even more entertaining. After the usual 15 minute working sessions interrupted by the standups, after two "builds", I decided it was time for me to go home. It was 9 PM, on a Friday. I had been in the office from 8AM, because I had decided to go earlier so I could leave earlier, hoping that I would catch a movie in the evening. Neither Chris Cantell or Frédéric Artru seemed eager to leave, they were very happy doing the "builds". It seemed that they would spend the whole night there. Their reaction when I suddenly stood up and said "I'm going home" was one of the most hillarious ones I ever saw: - Cantell: "What do you mean, you're going home?"
- Me: "I mean I'm going home, I've been here for 13 hours, I've some health issues and I also have some personal ones that I'd rather not speak about that I have to take care of."
- Cantell: "But I'm in a build here, you can't walk out!"
- Me: "Look, I know where my physical limit is. I know where the common sense limit is, too. And this moment is way beyond both. I really feel tired, I didn't eat anything all day, I'm done. It's late, I'm going home."
- Cantell: "Err, can you come back after you finish dealing with your issues, later on?"
- Me: "Sure, when do you want me back? Is 3-4 AM OK?"
- Cantell: "Mhm, nevermind, just go home."
This conversation took place in everybody else's presence. I couldn't help noticing the smiles and satisfaction in the eyes of the other interns. For some strange reason, I was the first one ever doing that, standing up against the crappy management and treatment. Next day, on Saturday, I strolled around Pau, getting souvenirs for my close friends. Around noon, I went to the office to spend some time online because we weren't allowed to use the Internet at home, for fear it would distract us from the important duties we had at the Foundry. Soon after I went in, Frédéric Artru showed up. He imediately pinged me: - Artru: "We need to talk."
- Me: "Yep, we sure do."
- Artru: "What do you think of this place?"
I smiled a bit, then went on:- Me: "I think it's a terrific place for newly graduates to get their feet wet with technical challenges, where they can find answers to all their questions. A place where they can do anything they've ever dreamed of."
- Artru: "No, I mean what do you think of us, the leaders."
- Me: "I think you're very friendly and you have good intentions, I really admire what you're doing."
- Artru: "Are you bullshitting me?"
- Me: "No."
- Artru: "Look, we think you have a problem, why are you here? You seem to know everything better, you have an attitude problem. You don't judge what we tell you, you just do as we say. So again, why are you here?"
At this point I already was a bit pissed, so I said:- Me: "Well, I'm here because I hoped to face some challenges. So far the only challenge I've had was not starving. As for the technical matters, I don't see a plan, I don't see any specs, I don't see a product, I don't see anything. I just see potential good engineering skills flushed down the drain with standups that take more than the actual work. I see lots of money spent and no result at all. It smells fishy."
- Artru: "We really think you have to go."
- Me: "So do I."
So he led me back to the apartment I lived in, I packed my things, after which he was kind enough to drive me to a hotel. I stayed there for one night, then I took off.
If you read the resumes of
Chris Cantell and
Frédéric Artru, you may think of them as brilliant entrepreneurs or scholars. I'll have to disappoint you.
Frédéric Artru doesn't know what the UNIX kill command does. I found this out while speaking to him about signalling another process from PHP. PHP has a kill function that does just that. It sends a signal to another process. Mr. Artru recommended himself as a PHP guru. I even saw he subscribed to some PHP newsgroups. I would expect a man of his stature, with his kind of tech skills, to know at least that. After all, he was an Apple engineer. He is also mentioned as the leader of several companies, one of which was bought by Cisco. My googling skills failed to help me find any reference to any product of these companies. In fact, I beg the reader to submit any kind of information on this matter. Furthermore, he had a really funny solution to the problem that their web harvesting PHP code couldn't properly use all the bandwidth they had so he started several scripts at the same time instead of seeing why a single one couldn't behave properly.
As for
Chris Cantell, he stars as
Christopher M Cantell in a hilarious case from Massachusetts. He basically tried to squeeze some money from a company without a written contract. You can see how big of a capitalist he is
here.
The funniest part is that, 5 months after I returned home, I got another call from SigEx Ventures. The miss on the other end of the phone was Romanian, as they are trying to do the same thing now in Bucharest. Here's an excerpt of our conversation: - Her: "Hello, we would like to ask you if you're interested in a 2 month internship at SigEx. You will be doing some extreme programming."
Did you laugh? I did. "Some"."Extreme"."Programming."- Me: "What precisely is this extreme programming thing?"
- Her: "Well, you know... programming extreme things."
- Me: "No, thank you very much."
I'm quite confident that the Foundry is a very good cow to milk. Nothing has ever come out of their "labs". The profile of the interns they take is extremely low. Two years ago their website was in the exact same stage it was when I paid them the visit. It seems to have changed in the meantime. Judge for yourselves: http://www.sigex.com
15 comments:
i googled cantell looking for a laugh, and goddam did i find it. thanks man
I AM NOT LAUGHING THOUGH. good work. this should have been said way before. besides the incompetency and furting propaganda, it ia also dangerous. all those who worked there in lack of alternatives or labour education, have undegone massive attemps to be brainwashed. Undepaid, overexhausting and the constant impression that one is not taken as "talent" but as a WEIRD PAWN in an absurd entreprise which produces nothing other than the cruel grandomania of its "gurus". Stay away from it, it is a sane advice!!!
hoh ... 10x for sharing...
Greetz from an ex-Fred worker at Odiesei/Netergy "...
I felt from my chair laughing reading the blog. Seems the management amplified everything to the max when compared to what I lived in Sophia Antipolis...
But actually, all this is very sad sad sad...
Hey fred, those guys you hire for your SigexLaundry are HUMANS, HUMANS, HUMANS. Do you understand? HUMANS!
i don't know whether to laugh or frown. most definetely my first instinct is to laugh about all of this big show called the foundry, but if i put myself in the shoes of people "studying" there i don't feel like it so much anymore (i have met quite some "foundry fellows")
It hasn't yet stopped? no one has done anything about this "company"? Now, that shocks me; they should be in seriously big trouble by now and also pay quite some money back to people whose time they wasted (oh, sorry, i forgot they give meaning and purpose to people's lives, "globally, all over the world" LOL). I am not familiar with what goes on behind the "studying" experience, as in, the actual business model, source of revenue and profit, but i have a feeling, it's just as "transparent" as the foundry school concept.
For the people who experience the awesome school there, i would almost be tempted to say it's an experiment, similar to stanford prison experiment, but then again the brains behind it would definetely not allow for such an elaborated theory...
What i think of is that something more than just blogging about it should be done; this "company" does seem to lure people into it, to affect them enough and to play with their mental health and self-concept.
For me it just causes a visceral reaction and it makes me sick.
I was working at the Foundry at the time you were there, and it was really funny how you stood up to them and how you left, you are a legend and you have my respect.
When I worked there it wasn't that bad for me, I was a recruiter and we had an easy job. Cantell he wanted quantity and not quality, so he got it! At the end of the day I said I made 50 phone calls, in reality it was less then 20 and half of it was to my friends :) I was on the internet all day, doing nothing because I knew it's not worth it, my effort won't be recognized, but because he was so satisfied with that number 50 he didn't even check on me. He was more preoccupied to yell at the guys. Us, recruiters had an easy life, a 10 to 5 work without stand ups and yelling, and since we knew that they are having 3 hours of lunch break we did ours 2 :)
I was paid 600 euros a month (same as the guys who were there 9am to 11pm and doing all the hard work and listening to his bullshit), it wasn't much but it was enough for food and to travel around and my job wasn't that hard. Everybody knew that it's not a good job, but I didn't care, for me it was well worth: I visited France for 3 months on their expenses and not doing too much stuff, and at home I didn't have anything else to do, so for me it was like a vacation, but when I recruited people I let them know that if they have a job it's not worth leaving it for the foundry. It was a good opportunity for those who didn't have anything else to do.
On my last weeks there the things started to change, we weren't doing recruitment anymore and then we started with the videos and blogs. And couple of months after I left I've heard that the salaries dropped to 150 euros a month plus you had to buy formal cloths and things like that and everything became very shitty.
I had a great time in Pau, but not because of the job or Cantell, it's because I didn't give a shit what Cantell told and I'm still friend with couple of people I met there and because I had the chance to travel around, but I feel sorry for the engineer guys who practically were slaves and for everyone else who were still there after I left and things started to be bad for recruiters (by now they became bloggers and copy-pasters) and I would not recommend it for anyone!!! It's not worth it for anyone now!!!
PS: Cantell was saying all the time: just google my name!
I bet he is not telling this anymore!!!! :)))))
and I forgot to say that Cantell is a sadistic monster, he doesn't know what he wants that's why he was changing our duty in every half an hour, he can not satisfy Natalie anymore that's why he prefers to stay at the foundry all day and all night and if he can't sleep nor go home then he won't let others to do it either, and he was forcing us to read his books, apparently he is doing hundreds of sit ups every day, that's why he has that big fat belly!
And he can go red in just seconds for no reason, and one more thing: after a while he said that the recruiters all the time at least someone should be in the office in front of the camera, and for a minute no one was in the office and he went crazy that if his partners will see that no one is working then they won't do business with him anymore (yeah, wright! like if anyone does now!)
And Fredy... he is just another salve like everyone else in the Foundry, but he doesn't know it. He is so brainwashed as well, and because Cantell gave him a title and made him feel important in the company he thinks that he is his partner, but Cantell is using him and several times he humiliated him in font of us. Once I went to lunch at the same time as them and it was raining, and I've seen that Fredy had to go in the pouring rain to take his car and drive it right to the entrance so he won't get wet - and he consider himself a partner and not an ass-licking slave! And because he is frustrated he turns his anger on the "students", yelling at them and becoming Mini-Me of Cantell.
He has a family, little kids and wife, but because he is at the foundry all the time no wonder his wife with the kids moved to London (Literally he is there almost all the time - several times we went to the foundry during the night to watch a movie and he was there).
...and Natalie! I don't know if all that money worth it!?!? She is like a shaking leaf around Cantell. When he was there she was like us. Running with her book around and letting him to yell at her like she was his dog and not his wife.
Hey there, anonymous :) Feel free to drop me a mail, keep in touch!
Heh, I have been there as well and I lasted for around 1 month. Then I left. I came there as a developer and I met some interesting people there and I had some fun but foundry is one huge internship fake. I did almost nothing with programming. The experience with Fredrick and Chris were one of the worst experiences in my life.
At the foundry most people were recruiters calling other countries trying to make other people to come.
The Foundry became the place that associates with Mac and that is the place why I developed a bad attitude toward Macs.
Natalie ... heh. When I was traveling in Klaipeda, Lithuania (Natalie's hometown) this year, I saw Chris and her there at a bar called Black Cat. I did not want to talk to them but just stared at two of them and wondered. Maybe she feeds him a lot and hopes he dies of heart attack and then she is going to possess all the money. That's the thing money can do. But damn, this man was biiig ... I mean literary.
Hi I too was at the Foundry in 2004. At that stage it was only a few of us from different parts of the world. Our experiences were similar to those you wrote about. We soon say what a sham it all was, and just used the place to make long distance phone calls and download music and movies all day. Chris Cantell is an egotistical monster.
The best thing about the place was meeting some very amazing people who I am still friends with, and using it as a base to travel around europe.
I have much more information to share as well!!
thanks for sharing this, i will send this to my ex - foundry friends.
Hi,
I just found your blog and I must admit - I am very happy somebody has did it :)
When I - ugh - got back from Foundry (yep - been there as well) I had no time to spread the word about this, as I had to earn back the modey I lost on this mistake.
But from the beginning :)
I've been there at February 2005. At that stage once I came there there was only me and another guy from Romania (unfortunatelly - lost contact :( ). I was picked up from airport by Frederic and driven to apartament. He showed me my room, saying that there will be several other guys in there in the future, while right not there is only that another Romaniam collegue - but I should not expect him early :) And indeed - he came at 1 AM.
Next day, at 8:00 AM we were to get to that nice building described by you and some other people in the comments. I thought - ok, apartament is not great, but maybe it will get better in the work. And the office - indeed - was nice... However what was most strange was that on several hundred square meters there were only me, Romaniam collegue and Frederic... Well - the nex strange thing :)
After coming Frederic started his evangelization - ruining all the Project Management rules and best practices, System Architecture models and so on. I started asking questions (which was not very welcome) - and the answer was always quite the same: "becouse that's the truth, that's the nature".
Of course after several "fights" he came to the argument whether I have read his CV :) And then the first large fight came up: as I responded, that nobody deserves respect only basing on CV, respect must be builded. He had to call his wife (standard as I see right now :) )
The next incident that day was once he was again teaching something (of course using the arguments about bad approach and so on). After several no-answer questions he asked me:
Artru: "do you think there is a thing you know, and I don't ?"
Me: "I suppose there are many such things - as well as there are many things you know, and I don't - and we meet here just to learn from each other these things"
Artru: "No - there is no such thing - I know that, becouse that's the truth, thats the nature"
Me: "And would you like me to give you the most simple example of that you are wrong ?"
Artru: "Sure, you can try - but you are not able to do that - becouse that's the truth, that's the nature"
Me: "OK - so I assume you CAN SPEAK POLISH ?" (just for some explanation - I am from Poland :) )
After that he just went to his room (saying nothing) and after about an hour or two he asked me to get to his office, where he told me I should leave now. I asked about the possibility of checking airlines/trains from Pau - no chance - I had to leave now :)
So I suppose I made some kind of record - I was "fired" at first day :)
I was talking to Cantel some time after on chat - trying to get some info from him what these guys are actually doin' - the only thing I got was "would you like to get another chance in the Foudry ? :) ". No further comments :)
How to summarize my comment ? I don't have an idea... Maybe just in the same way others did - STAY AWAY ? :)
Best regards - Voyteck
I Googled Chris Cantell just to see what he was up to since I last saw him. That was in the 1985-1986 timeframe. At that time he had "Cantell Corporation", which was his effort to get a bunch of AutoCAD dealers in the USA to stop selling PCs and switch to Unix workstations, which after all were going to dominate the market. Good call there, Chris. As far as I know most AutoCAD dealers he talked to told him to piss off, and not terribly long after that Cantell Corporation didn't exist any more. It's interesting to see that he is still dancing his little dance just like he was 20 years ago. Sorry to hear that people are still being sucked in.
(I also have to laugh that the word verification I have been given by blogger to leave this comment is "cantle").
ok...how to start...i read all of your blogs and decided to write a comm to this one because it is the first one...my question is why are all the people either anonymous or bloggers partners to this site? did they steal money from you? is there any legeal action filled against them? some of the blogs almost convinced me they are bad, yet this last one is a great disappointment...only an unreliable narrator uses quotes...it is practically impossible to remeber word-by-word your conversations, thus i must doubt everything...could you convince me that you are telling the truth?..btw I write for this people and cannot complain about them. however, if I am doing something illegal please tell me, because I will go to the authorities and by next Friday the story will be largely broadcasted in Romania. But if it's nothing illegal then just stop doing what you are doing. None forced you to do anything and it is the same for all the others.
Hey corne. It's easy: once something gets you really pissed, you remember all of it. In my case, it's also a thing that comes with the job. You don't *have* to believe my story, it's your choice. However, the simple fact that they've turned their profile a lot lower lately should give you some food for thought. Also, as you can see, there were many other comments suggesting pretty much what I described.
You're hillarious saying that "only an unreliable narrator uses quotes". Heck, I guess I'm unreliable :)
Some years ago, I went to The Foundry to, i stay 2 days, realice that was a Scam (also confront cantell ) and Quit...
DV
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